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Mindas Arran
12-21-2009, 06:03 AM
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this film yet, but what was everyone's thoughts on it?

Personally, I thought the movie was amazing, and interestingly enough, I relate to the Na'vi more than any other fictional group that I've ever seen, both in action, preferred way of living, and philosophy. There are already Na'vi sites popping up on Facebook and I'm sure it won't be long before there are realist sites for that too.

I'm so there. :sHa_thumb:

RyuJin
12-21-2009, 02:46 PM
haven't seen it yet, i know james cameran postponed making it for 10 years to let technology catch up to his vision for it...considering he wrote, and directed it, it should be really good.

Coragus Corvus
12-21-2009, 03:23 PM
Avatar was incredible. The scenes with CGI and live human interactions were flawless. I think it's probably the best movie I've seen in the last two or three years.

Inari
12-21-2009, 03:43 PM
I haven't seen it yet but am taking the family on Thursday. I have been a little concerned about its appropriateness for young children (5 & 7) but I've talked to a few people who have seen it and they likened it to Narnia and Transformers in terms of action and few swear words. Would you folks agree?

Andy
12-21-2009, 04:17 PM
i wouldnt mind the action or swearing, most people would have a problem with the fact you spend most of the movie looking at blue boobies.

RyuJin
12-21-2009, 04:18 PM
rofl blue boobies


it's done in an artistic manner so it should be all good :P

Kitsu Tails
12-21-2009, 05:05 PM
Inari, I am sure it will be appropriate enough for your kids. I wouldn't have reservations taking my own (If they were old enough *Rubs belly* )

I am not sure if they will understand or be willing to sit through it much...but you have nothing to worry about when it comes to rating.

I went fully expecting Kairi to kick, nudge, and dodge through the entire movie, thus making me uncomfortable and sick like she did for Ninja Assassin. However she actually slept through most of it, and kicked lightly through the rest. It is mostly story based then action/explosions & fancy loud sounds. Instead of Transformers think... Older Star Wars. (although the graphics a 20 times better :-p )

Inari
12-21-2009, 05:40 PM
That's all good to hear. We've planned on the earliest session available to help cope with restless children. And if it is engrossing enough they 'should' be able to sit through it.

Kitsu Tails
12-21-2009, 06:27 PM
well...Engrossing enough for adults it certainly is...Not to sure it is for kids though. I think the only saving grace you will get for the kids is that it is in 3D, which should entertain them for a little while at least. And the 'Dinosaur' like creatures.

RyuJin
12-21-2009, 07:41 PM
so the future daughter was doing her ninja training on your internals eh....
using the spleen and pancreas as punching bags....ouch
you may wanna warn the docs not to spank her when she comes out or she may put a hurting on em :D

Kitsu Tails
12-21-2009, 07:51 PM
No doctor will be laying a hand on my daughter unless something really major goes wrong :) But yea, Ninja Assassin scared her enough I almost had to leave in the middle of the movie >_<

Moonshadow
12-22-2009, 12:17 AM
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this film yet, but what was everyone's thoughts on it?

Personally, I thought the movie was amazing, and interestingly enough, I relate to the Na'vi more than any other fictional group that I've ever seen, both in action, preferred way of living, and philosophy.

I saw Avatar on Saturday and completely agree. The concept of the Na'vi is right up there with the Jedi in terms of fictional representations of how I wish to live my personal path. The Na'vi philosophy falls right in line with the concept of the Force and a universal Oneness, which is what attracted me to Star Wars and the Jedi in the first place. I think even many non Jedi Realists have made the same correlation between Avatar and Star Wars. Even beyond that core element, though, Avatar is definitely a well made movie with great effects.

Inari, I think the movie can definitely be appropriate for kids and there's probably enough action to keep their interest, although 3 hours is still a very long time. It does have a bit of violence and emotional parts, though, which they may or may not fully understand.

--Moonshadow

Mindas Arran
12-22-2009, 09:08 AM
The concept of the Na'vi is right up there with the Jedi in terms of fictional representations of how I wish to live my personal path.
What tips the scale for me is that the Jedi are so monastic in all of their representations, whereas the Na'vi are so community oriented (and in my opinion more natural). I realize that with Jedi Realism, people will manifest that however they like, I'm just saying.

Coragus Corvus
12-22-2009, 11:09 AM
The biggest piece of advice I have for people about to see this movie, and this goes double for kids, is use the bathroom about half an hour before it starts, even if you don't think you have to go. Then, resist the urge to buy that big 'ol soda and popcorn combo until after the movie ends.

Angelus
12-22-2009, 12:01 PM
the Jedi are so monastic in all of their representations

Please clarify what you mean by "monastic." The Jedi were very much about a community. However, given the situations at hand (and their primary goals), the ways those communities were defined differed.

I also want to say that I LOVED Avatar. It has revoluntionized the face of filmmaking. As I have been delving more in the my shamanistic studies, there was much that rang true with what was represented with the Na'vi. I liked the earth centeredness and the connection with one's ancestors.

Moonshadow
12-22-2009, 03:33 PM
Warning: Trying to keep my responses as general as possible, but you may still not want to read if you want to avoid any plot spoilers.

What tips the scale for me is that the Jedi are so monastic in all of their representations, whereas the Na'vi are so community oriented (and in my opinion more natural). I realize that with Jedi Realism, people will manifest that however they like, I'm just saying.

I can definitely see what you're saying here. The Na'vi were all about the connection between each other and their family and community and their world, whereas other than the close bond between Master and Apprentice, the fictional Jedi are a bit isolated and set apart. The Jedi have a specific role to play and even when they involve themselves in matters of the rest of the universe, they are still separate and neutral. The Na'vi are all about just living in balance and connection with their world around them, while the Jedi's path is weighed down by politics and almost an enforced state of separatism. The Na'vi are so natural and just live, while the Jedi are stiff and controlled and have a certain role and purpose to fulfill.

I think Angelus is right in that a lot of this is simply due to the setting and circumstances of each culture, though. The Na'vi have only their own world to think about, allowing them the luxury of living in simplicity and having that deep connection to their own people and environment, whereas the Jedi are gathered from across the universe forcing them to sever the connections to their culture and families and are trained to serve a greater role. The Na'vi are centered around living in balance and maintaining that balance in their own world, whereas the Jedi are centered around developing themselves so that they may better serve the Universe as a whole, yet at the same time maintaining distance and neutrality to avoid interfering with cultures like the Na'vi. It's a definitely much stricter and lonelier existence for the Jedi rather than a simple and natural one.

If the Na'vi were to leave their world and serve in the same role as the Jedi, I think they would lose much of what attracted you to them, though. They would still have the same heart and soul, but that sense of connection would be lost. Even if they still maintained a connection to the universal Force, it would still not be the same as the deep sense of Community and connection to their world which make them who they are. If they left their world, I’m sure they would be able to maintain who they were and start over again, but so much of what makes them who they are is specifically related to the environment they grew up in, from their basic anatomy to their connection to their ancestors through the land around them. They are almost like a symbiotic unit and without that connection to their world and their Community, they are lost. I guess the same could be said for the Jedi and their connection to the Force, but the Jedi can also find that connection anywhere, not just in their own Community.

The Na'vi are more of a people and a culture, very similar to the Native Americans, whereas the Jedi is more of a role. I am incredibly attracted to the type of lifestyle and culture represented by the Na’vi, though. I even worked on an Indian Reservation for two months to try to get closer to that type of culture. But as an outsider, it is very difficult to break in. It’s something you usually have to be born into (even the movie demonstrates that), whereas anyone from any culture can become a Jedi (although you do need commitment to the path and some sort of connection to the Force).

I would have loved to be born into a culture like the Na’vi. It’s a place and a culture where I would have truly felt at home and like I belonged because it’s completely in line with my own personal beliefs and everything that I’m seeking in this world. I think what tips the scales for me towards the Jedi, though, is that there are fewer limitations for the Jedi. The Jedi path is open to anyone regardless of background or species, whereas you basically have to physically be a Na’vi, to be a Na’vi, and also need to be born into that society with very few exceptions to be accepted. More importantly for me, though, is that the Jedi’s focus is directly on the Force whereas the Na’vi need certain tools to achieve that connection. I’ve always been interested in different paths like Native American culture and Wicca, because they are so closely in line with that same Na’vi and Jedi philosophy. But at the same time, I’ve never followed those paths fully because they come with the restrictions of requiring certain rituals, tools, ceremonies, etc, to achieve that connection to the Force which I feel should just come naturally. The Jedi use tools too, like meditation, but it still seems like they have a bit more of direct access to me.

In either case, the Jedi and the Na’vi are on almost equal playing fields for me. Both have a deep connection to the Universal Oneness, both respect the world and life around them, both are both deeply physical and spiritual, both seek balance, both serve as protectors and defenders, etc. It’s really too bad that they’re both fictional, because if they weren’t I’d run away to join them right now. Instead I’m stuck trying to re-create the Jedi path as I go along. :p

--Moonshadow

stancheung75
12-22-2009, 06:17 PM
Wow Aimee that was a very good summery of the culture and differences between Jedi and Na'vi. You brought up some very interesting points I haven't even begun to think about. You have an amazingly deep perspective on this.

I'm personally very glad I've seen the movie. I was fortunate enough to watch the 15 min. preview a few months ago. I really was impressed with the special effects. But I got to see the scene where the speech was given about. How a certain rescue shouldn't have been done because the creatures were doing what was natural. That was the point that got me to really want to see the movie.

Oh by the way Zoe Saladana was incredible. My friend who's a film teacher told me that actors who played the Na'Vi characters might qualify for acting awards. They did the movie in Motion Capture also and not just the voice work. So the movements and expressions are all from the actors. Only the animations was done by computers.

RyuJin
12-22-2009, 06:29 PM
i only use meditation to center myself and maintain my connection...i've always felt the connection since i was a little kid...of course it could be innate since i'm part cheyenne indian

RyuJin
12-22-2009, 06:30 PM
zoe saldana was also uhura in the new star trek .....she pwetty

Mindas Arran
12-22-2009, 07:16 PM
The Jedi path is open to anyone regardless of background or species, whereas you basically have to physically be a Na’vi, to be a Na’vi, and also need to be born into that society with very few exceptions to be accepted.
Obviously, there are certain aspects that don't transcend the fiction-to-reality jump very well. But that is true for either path. To say that you couldn't follow a path similar to the Na'vi because you aren't blue and born on Pandora is the same as saying that you can't be a Jedi without an astrodroid and a lightsaber. The Na'vi themselves were cool (who wouldn't like to be nine foot tall and agile as a ninja??), but not what attracted me to the philosophy or the possibility of it as a path. :)

**Edit**
As a side note, you mentioned that the Jedi path is open to anyone, but really, it was something that (in fiction) you had to be born in to, and then some. If you weren't born force sensitive, then it was impossible for you to become a Jedi without exception. Even many who were born sensitive didn't make it to Jedi status and were shipped off to AgiCor.

RyuJin
12-22-2009, 08:51 PM
or to telos

Kitsu Tails
12-22-2009, 09:16 PM
RyuJin - Korriban more likely. That's where the main Sith Academy is located. And you didn't get shipped there, you either went by choice, or by recruit. If you were out castes by the Jedi due to your sithly-ness. The Jedi would seclude you to an uncharted and dangerous planet, setting up guards to be sure you stayed there. After all were trying to get rid of the sith, not add to their numbers.

...but now...I'm getting off topic >_<

Moonshadow
12-22-2009, 11:41 PM
Warning" Again, trying to be as general as possible, but you may still want to avoid reading if you don't want plot spoilers.

Obviously, there are certain aspects that don't transcend the fiction-to-reality jump very well. But that is true for either path. To say that you couldn't follow a path similar to the Na'vi because you aren't blue and born on Pandora is the same as saying that you can't be a Jedi without an astrodroid and a lightsaber. The Na'vi themselves were cool (who wouldn't like to be nine foot tall and agile as a ninja??), but not what attracted me to the philosophy or the possibility of it as a path. :)

Hehe. Definitely a lot of things in both cases that can't quite make the fiction to reality jump. I guess both our discussions highly depend on how far from the fiction we're willing to leap and I can definitely see your reasoning there.

I think difference for me, though, is that the thing that most attracted me to the Na'vi was the way they were are able to actually physically link in with the world around them. Of course I love their culture, their agility, their warrior spirit, their respect for all life around them, their sense of community, etc, etc, etc since all of that deeply calls to me as well. But for me, the number one thing that has always attracted me to the Jedi path has been about finding and deepening that connection to the Force. So of course, the number one thing that enthralled me about the Na’vi was the depth of the connection they were able to make through that physical link. Unfortunately, that link is completely dependent on their anatomy which can’t really be translated into the real world. Therefore, the Na’vi anatomy plays a much greater role for me in the attraction to their path than the Jedi’s use of a lightsaber which I never really cared about one way or another in the first place. Then again, the same argument about connection could be made for the Jedi that Jedi Realists can only hope to achieve a fraction of the Force connection that the fictional Jedi have, at least in today’s society.

I also definitely agree that almost anyone could follow a path similar to the Na'vi. The Native Americans did it. They were spiritual on one side and hunters and warriors on the other, deeply connected to the earth and the delicate balance of the world around them. The concept of the Na'vi took all of that to a whole new level, not only on a spiritual level, but on that physical level as well. Unfortunately for the Native Americans, much of that has been lost with the destruction and taking of their land. They may still maintain that innate philosophy and connection, but how they are able to live their lives today has been completely altered from what was once their true way of life. I can only imagine what would happen to the Na'vi if their world were destroyed. They would still be Na'vi. Still hold the same beliefs, still maintain the connection to each other, but they would lose a very large part of their culture and what made them who they were, and also a large part of what attracts me, and I think you as well, to that path and lifestyle.

I'm not saying we can't find that type of thing in today's world. I'm sure there are some isolated areas with people who might actually live that way. But I think that type of culture can only truly exist in a natural environment without any modern technology or monetary issues to serve as distractions in order to achieve that level of simplicity, using only the resources that are absolutely necessary, to allow for that deep connection, symbiotic relationship, and sense of balance to be formed. It's something that's always attracted me because it's a path that calls to the core of my being. I've even researched different Green Communities and different Temples that I could possibly join. None of them exist at the level I'm looking for, though. Many green communities lack the warrior aspect (after all, what need is there for warriors in that type of setting?), which is just as important to me as the earth centered and spiritual aspects. And as for the Temples, as I mentioned before, as an outsider, it's very difficult to break into and be accepted into different cultures that may live a path similar to the one I'm looking for. I've even been tempted to just go off on my own and build a house in the middle of the wilderness, but that would also remove me from any sense of Community, which is also a large part of what makes the Na'vi who they are.

I guess the main difference I see between the Na'vi and the Jedi is that being a Na'vi is part of a culture, while being a Jedi is a path and a way of life. And I feel it is much easier to retain my own culture and choose to follow a path and way of life that calls to me, rather than to alter myself to be able to fit in and be accepted into someone else’s culture. Not that there's really much I can argue with in the Na'vi culture and way of life. I like how it was kept very simple and straight forward in the movie to avoid any rubs with different religions.

The other big difference is that the Na'vi are also very isolated. Everything that's important to them is already within their own world and Community. They kind of come as a package deal. It’s not just being Na’vi that make them who they are, but their Community and Land as well. Without all of those elements, they lose a large part of who they are. The Na’vi can’t truly live as Na’vi without their world, while on the other hand, the Jedi can exist in any environment or setting.

In addition, I feel that the Na'vi have a much greater connection to their world, whereas the Jedi have a much greater connection to the Universal Force. One’s not really better than the other, but still a big difference between the two.

When it really comes down to it, though, both paths are fictional anyway. No, we can't suddenly become big blue aliens that are able to physically connect to the world around us. Just as a Jedi Temple and Council aren't going to magically appear to provide us with true training along the Jedi path. If either were available in the real world, I'd give up everything in a second to be there. But instead, those of us who are called to such paths are left just recreating what we can in today's society. There are many elements about both paths that attract me. I think if there was some way to combine the best of both, that would be the ultimate path to follow. It would be like the Jedi minus the technology and politics, with a deeper connection to the earth and greater sense of Community. :)

**Edit**
As a side note, you mentioned that the Jedi path is open to anyone, but really, it was something that (in fiction) you had to be born in to, and then some. If you weren't born force sensitive, then it was impossible for you to become a Jedi without exception. Even many who were born sensitive didn't make it to Jedi status and were shipped off to AgiCor.

Yeah, can definitely see your argument there. Gotta admit I’m really fuzzy on the expanded universe since I haven’t read it in a loooooooooooong time. But I seem to remember there were a couple Jedi with very little Force sensitivity. Wasn’t there one Jedi Apprentice in the Young Jedi Knight books that wrote ballads because that was her gift since she didn’t have a lot of Force abilities? And I also thought that the Jedi who joined the AgriCorp were still Jedi, just not Jedi Knights. I could be wrong, though. Like I said, my expanded universe knowledge is very fuzzy.

Addendum: Btw, have to completely agree with Coragus's advice. 3 hours is a looong time. :p

--Moonshadow

RyuJin
12-23-2009, 12:03 AM
lol i was referencing jedi that didn't complete training...they were sent to telos to work farms to aid the republic....of course they did have a choice to go there or choose exile/sith.

i'll be watching avatar as soon as i get back from work...

Inari
12-23-2009, 02:28 PM
I am FINALLY going to go see it today, and will be able to participate more fully in this conversation.

RyuJin
12-23-2009, 05:41 PM
really good movie...
to me it seemed that they had more then a connection to their planet, it was more like they were a part of the planet. especially when they bonded with the tree of souls or one of the animals. the ending was a bit predictable, as was his bonding with the "last shadow"...i predict no less then 10 award nominations for this movie. it was well written/directed. the cast did a great job. it was a bit formulaic to me but i think it's because i've seen so many movies. i enjoyed it nonetheless, enough to watch it a few more times....as an aside i was a bit dissappointed that i didn't see any bloobies :p overall i think it would be a good movie for the whole family to see. the minimal violence doesn't push the plot along instead it highlights specific plot points...the dialogue was relatively clean and the few swear words were needed to show the difference between races.

Inari
12-24-2009, 02:27 AM
When the movie finished, I wanted to get right back into that capsule and pull the lid down again...or go buy for the next session hehe. But no, it was back to the real world of arguing kids (who at least did sit quietly through the movie), lunch crowds and advertising and Christmas insanity and all the rest. I could understand Sully's comment about the 'real world' feeling like the dream world after so long immersed in Pandora.

WARNING: Possible spoilers.

I don't really think that there is much in the way of direct correlations to be made between the Jedi and the Na'vi. The Na'vi seemed to me to be tribal/shamanic culture, with individuals able to make their own spiritual interpretations to an extent and checking with the shamaness at need. On Earth, we are beings of physical substance, and need to learn how to be aware of and interpret signs and interactions between ourselves and the natural and spiritual world, Gaia if you will. Gaia is subtle and it can be hard for her people to hear her voice, Eywa however has taken a more direct approach to ensure her physical creatures have a direct link to her spiritual realm. What would humanity have been like if we had such a direct link from our confusing physical selves and that of the spirit? Additionally, Eywa/Pandora was a least beginning to show to Earthly scientists data that they could accept, in scientific terms, to demonstrate this global consciousness.

The Na'vi did indeed wear their emotions on their sleeves, so to speak, whereas the Jedi are taught to control their emotions. It seems to me though that we (we as in the Jedi community) may be making a mistake when it comes to emotions, perhaps we misinterpret this credo of control to mean rigidity and denial, when actually what it is is cultivation of a spirit of calmness and serenity that rarely gets ruffled. Rarely, not never. Qui Gon, for example, clearly showed irritation and anger in the movie, the trick was he did not lash out at others and hence cause others to feel his emotions. I think though that there were points of similarity here between the Na'vi and the Jedi, the Na'vi on the whole seemed reasonably serene and accepting, probably because their faith in Eywa, the natural order of things and becoming one with their diety parallels the Jedi's similar faith in the Force.

It has occured to me that the negative and positive reviews given to this movie could reflect the individuals giving the reviews deeply held views about our 'western' culture. The question is asked of Jake 'Why do you hate your own kind so much?'. Almost exactly the same question was asked of Tom Cruise's character in 'The Last Samurai'. Both characters saw something precious and a lifestyle they preferred to that of the one they were raised in, which is this same one that we are raised in (realising different times involved). The others fighting against those cultures saw nothing worthwhile in them. Could it be that those same prejudices are alive and well in us today, and reflect our reactions to this movie?

For myself, I'd be on Pandora in a shot.

Moonshadow said how attractive she found the combination of the warrior and the spiritual path. We've talked about this before and I fully share her views on this. Perhaps some of the rest of you do too. Look at this culture we have here. How many of us, with the hearts and souls of both the warrior and the spiritual seeker, the spiritual warrior if you will, how many of us have a place in this society we have constructed for ourselves. I don't want to get into an argument with any ex or current military folk, so I'll just say that the warrior path in our society is not what once was or has been in other societies. The culture as a whole is comprised largely of sheeple. The spiritual is something we study and play at, not intrinsic in our culture. I also appreciated that the Na'vi were truly brothers and sisters in the warrior tradition, with the females as well as the males being able to protect their way of life. Contrast this with our society, men may be warriors but are eyed askance if they espouse the spiritual; women are accepted when they are spiritual but treated as oddities as they wish also to be warriors. The Na'vi way is better.

Moonshadow, my sister. We must discuss how to bring our common vision to fruition. So often we say 'Oh, if only this was built, I'd be there in a flash'. But someone, somewhere, has to take the first steps. There is a way. We just need a bit of bioluminescence to find it! :p

Mindas Arran
12-24-2009, 05:36 AM
Moonshadow, my sister. We must discuss how to bring our common vision to fruition. So often we say 'Oh, if only this was built, I'd be there in a flash'. But someone, somewhere, has to take the first steps. There is a way. We just need a bit of bioluminescence to find it!
It's starting slowly, but there are groups starting to pop up online. We're already discussing things and trying to start local "tribes" (chapters) for RL gatherings and such. If anyone is interested, check out the Na'vi Pride group on Facebook.

**edit**
Link to the group added:
http://www.facebook.com/#/group.php?gid=248871714250

RyuJin
12-24-2009, 06:01 AM
something i found amusing was that the technology used to make the movie was more advanced then the technology used by the humans in the movie...we can already clone and manipulate dna so creating an avatar body is possible...we have micro chips that can interact with our neurology so manipulating a body is possible, we have wireless communication so communication between bodies is possible, and they're developing a memory chip that would allow us to "download" our personality and knowledge and load it into a body of our choosing...we've had these things for the last 10-15 years now...james cameran had to wait 10years for computer technology to advance far enough for him to make the movie of his vision.

the medical application for that sort of technology would be vast....the paralyzed could move again...just a thought...

as to the spiritual warrior...speaking as ex-military i can say that there are a lot of us we just get held back with orders and regulations, those of us that step out of line get punished.

as to allowing women to be warriors....it doesn't bother me at all...i actually find women that can fight for themselves to be more attractive then "princesses".

Kitsu Tails
12-24-2009, 11:33 AM
Well, to be perfectly Honest I did not see the Navi as "Warriors" They were "Hunters" There IS a difference.

Inari
12-24-2009, 01:17 PM
Well, to be perfectly Honest I did not see the Navi as "Warriors" They were "Hunters" There IS a difference.

Yes, there is a difference, but whichever way you look at it, they certainly thawed a little towards Jake when they realised he was a dreamwalker warrior, rather than a scientist. Perhaps they felt that they could have more in common with him.

Oy, I'm feeling that 5:50am wakeup by the kids. Merry Christmas all!

Kitsu Tails
12-24-2009, 03:33 PM
well, TBH - Id feel more relaxed around a warrior then a scantiest as well. Warriors are easier to talk to, and get along with more then a scantiest. And when a Warrior asks to be taught, they put there all into it...a scantiest has to argue everything, and break everything down into their logic, and thus...as the Navi Priestess said "There glass's are full" thus a waist of time.

Ninja Boi
12-24-2009, 04:27 PM
Avatar was one of the bests movies Ive seen in a long time. Defiantly in my top ten favs. Remember when Star Wars first came out in the 70's and everyone walked out of the theater with their jaw dragging on the floor? Of course I wasnt born yet but my grandfather saw it and avatar and he said it was exactly like that! Avatar has amazing CG and the story is fantastic! But that is expected for the makers of Titanic, Independence Day, Terminator, True Lies and Aliens. All great movies.

P.S. I dont know who knows this already but was researching the movie and James Cameron said that if it is successful we should expect two sequels.

Inari
12-24-2009, 05:39 PM
Lets hope the sequels won't take an additional 12 years each lol.

Inari
12-25-2009, 04:38 PM
Just a little more about the Na'vi and their freedom of emotion. I was just having a look at a site regarding the language created for the Na'vi, and it seems that the way a 'word' is put together to describe an action can be dependent upon how the speaker feels about that action.

Including second-position infixes:

tìrmareion ‘was just now hunting (and the speaker feels positive about it)’

tayarängon ‘will hunt (and the speaker feels negative about it)’

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1977

I think that one of the reasons why language is so important to some filmmakers and authors (I am thinking of Tolkien here) is that it is a direct reflection of the culture from which it arose. So it seems to me quite an important part of the Na'vi culture that when individuals or groups are interacting, emotional viewpoint is directly stated and not just inferred from body language.

RyuJin
12-25-2009, 05:26 PM
look at the japanese language they have multiple ways of saying the same thing depending on the situation/gender...in most latin based languages gender plays a part in the vocabulary...only english is androgynous

jdmcowan
12-26-2009, 04:19 PM
Interestingly, RyuJin, I would normally claim that Japanese is more androgynous than English. Reading a sentence out of context will usually give you no information about sexual gender. However, your point is well taken that Japanese is spoken in such a way that sexual gender greatly effects one's word and grammar choices so that in context Japanese can often be very sexist.

Na'vi takes the androgynousness to a new level. In English we have three third person singular pronouns:

"he," "she," and, "it"

I'm ignoring the singular, "they" which has been sneaking into English as a third person singular pronoun without sexual gender. Similarly, Na'vi has three third person singular pronouns:

"poan," "poé," and, "po"

However, the word, "po," is not just used for inanimate objects like, "it." It is also used for living objects and is more commonly used instead of, "poan," and, "poé," which are only used when it is necessary to specify gender. So, "po teraron," would be translated into English as, "he is hunting," "she is hunting," or, "it is hunting," depending on context.

This brings up another interesting point. The Na'vi language also does not generally make any distinctions for whether an object is animate or inanimate, which many Earth languages do. Surely there are some verbs that trees don't do, but grammatically no difference is indicated. In English, you might point to a man and say, "He is standing firm." When pointing to a tree you would instead say, "It is standing firm." But in the Na'vi language, they are both, "po nìtxur kllkxerem."

I also like what Inari pointed out about how you can inflect the sentence for pleasure or displeasure, though not every sentence gets inflected with such. It is an option that you can add if you would like to explicitly express your pleasure or displeasure. I believe what the head of the clan said was:

"Oeri ta peyä fahew akewong ontu teya längu."
"My nose is full of his alien stench."

But he could have instead indicated pleasure by saying:

"Oeri ta peyä fahew akewong ontu teya leiu."
"My nose is full of his unusual fragrance."

Or he could have also made a casual and unemotional observation by saying:

"Oeri ta peyä fahew akewong ontu teya lu."
"My nose is full of his strange scent."

Oh-uh. Now you've got me going about a language, I'd better stop now or I'll be here all night.

Moonshadow
01-01-2010, 04:31 PM
I thought this article (http://scifiwire.com/2009/12/forget-klingon-give-a-lis.php) shared an interesting perspective on speaking the Na'vi language and other dialogue for the movie.

--Moonshadow

Inari
01-01-2010, 07:00 PM
Good article Moonshadow, thanks for sharing.