The temple

[Ander Ro'Sal]

I have written a BLOG concerning this topic.
I am doing the leg work, well (finger work)
I just need help from the community to get everything running.
I'm not a financial wiz, and I'm no good with building websites.
but the jist is to have a site where Jedi and anybody willing to donate can
sign up and drop in a donation. then return to the site to see how much money we've raised and where its being spent.
any thoughts???

MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU

[Mindas Arran]

My first thought, as a skeptic, is that someone could run off with the donation money and vanish in the anonymity that is the internet. Unless the person receiving the donations is well established and the cause laid out and worthy I can't see entrusting my money, which is hard earned and coming from the mouths of my family, to a group or individual.

I don't mean to be a naysayer, I'm just saying... a lot of people might be hesitant until these questions of legitimacy are addressed.

[RyuJin]

quite true...

[Ander Ro'Sal]

that is a major concern of mine. I don't want to appear to some crazy con man.
this is why I'm asking for the support from this group and many others. account would be held like any other nonprofit fund. and the site where donations will be made would have a tracker in it so every member who donates can see exactly the ammount that is being held and how the order is using it. Ofcourse nothing will have my name attached it will all go to the Order. I'm just trying to put the idea out there.

[RyuJin]

templeofthejediorder.com is already doing this...their accountant displays who donates and how much as well as expenses for maintaining the site

[Zaron]

No offense meant at all Ander or anybody else but people have been trying to do this since the first movie came out and no one has really succeded. I belive this is because do to the Jedi being so spread out and are having problems contacting each other we are all trying to do the samething which is good and all but how do any of us belive that we can get a temple running like thiis. My advice would be to try to combine all of the donations in to the templeofthejediorder site do to them already doing it and they most likely have the best best chance at this rate. Another thing once again no offense, Can we affored to focus on a temple? I mean look around the world now can we really spare the time and money to do this at this time? I am well aware that the best chance WE AS JEDI HAVE but what could happen if even one of us takes our attention away from the worlds problems? Plus this might be a little of subject but I have learned that if the force truly want's us to have a temple like this at this time it would have happened already probaly a decade or so ago back with the release of phantom menace. I am not meaning to upset anybody or to take away your hopes Andur in the least this is just meant to be freindly conversation

[RyuJin]

eventually we(jedi) will have a few temples built....if you look at the statistics it's going to happen eventually...i see one on the east coast(in the north first,most likely in the new england area, then in the south,most likely central or south florida), one on the west coast(in cali first then around seattle) and one in texas....then there will be temples popping up in australia, and england(other then the one that is already there)...it's hard to explain why/how i see this, but i do....

[Setanaoko]

Got a site for the blog?

[Setanaoko]

Force Realists, WHEN it finally sets up(as a on-the-shelf publication), is where I hope to collect the money for such a project.

The difference between me and donations, is that I am providing a service in exchange for the money. So you still get something out of it. It is my hope that I can use the money to first set up the operation and then proceed to supporting Jedi projects such as a temple and even things like the Jedi Relief organization that was talked about a few years back.

[Moonshadow]

Setanaoko, I think Ander is referring to his entry (http://www.jediresourcecenter.org/vb/blog.php?b=416) in the blog section here.

I think a Temple is a great idea in theory, but as I've said in past discussions, a Temple is just a building without the people. Even if a Temple were one day created, the vast majority of Jedi would not be willing to move there. We can barely even get more than a handful of Jedi to come to Gatherings, and that's only one weekend a year. Jedi Realists have many more attachments than the fictional Jedi did. There's a reason the fictional Jedi were taken to the Temple as children to train before they could form any attachments. Jedi Realists today have jobs, children, families, friends, etc which makes uprooting themselves incredibly difficult.

What good is having a huge piece of land and a fancy building if you don't even have enough Jedi to fill the rooms? You don't need a million dollar facility to make a Temple. You just need the people. It's my dream to create a true offline Jedi Community Center and I am continuing to work towards that goal. I'm not even asking for donations, just slowly saving up funds on my own. It doesn't even have to be a fancy place. Just a building with a few rooms to train and a place nearby for Jedi to live. But I've created posts in the past asking who would actually be willing to move to such a facility once it was created, and didn't get a single completely affirmative response. Most people are simply attached to what's solid and familiar, and I'm right there with them. I know if someone else created such a center, I wouldn't move unless I was absolutely certain it could offer everything I was looking for.

I'm glad that Temple of the Jedi Order is actively working towards creating a Temple, but I don't really know their goals or their members very well. I also don't regard the Jedi Path as a religion, so I'm not sure if my personal journey and beliefs would be in line with what a temple created by TOTJO would have to offer.

In fact, the Jedi Community is so diverse, I doubt we'll ever come to a full consensus on almost anything. Most likely, I think a few people may begin to create local Temples or Community Centers, but I doubt there will ever be an active Unified Temple in our lifetime.

I feel like the concept of the Jedi Temple is along the same lines as the concept for Jedi Gatherings. When I was at the old Jediism site, the High Council there discussed having an elaborate Gathering at a hotel with formal lectures, etc. It was a great concept, but never ended up happening because it was too expensive for the majority of members and too involved to organize for the Council at that time. Great in theory, but not in follow through. Instead, much simpler Gatherings have been a huge success. For example, the Montana Gathering was one of the first Gatherings and attempt at a sort of Temple and brought together a large number of Jedi in one household. And then with the Jedi Gatherings Group, we've grown from the first Pennsylvania Gathering where 5 people hung out in tents to now renting out an entire building at a Retreat next to a beach. My point is to start out small and grow from there. You can't create a Temple without first building a solid foundation. I think too many people are worried about the building and are forgetting that it's the people who make it what it is.

--Moonshadow

[AstaSophi]

Attachment or choice? Unlike the fictional Jedi of Star Wars we all have choice. We choose our homes, we have family, friends, community, jobs, and we choose our own lives.

If some Jedi feel comfortable and choose to band together that is wonderful.

But that is not the "calling" of what is likely the majority of Jedi.

Remember also - we are not children being taught - or workers/soldiers being supported by funds or government.

In truth - but for the core philosophy we are nothing like the fictional Jedi of Star Wars. That is the reality.

But those who do choose to come together could organize. But choice of place has nothing to do with "attachment" but that most want the temple to be close to their own homes and families.

That choice is completely natural, healthy and understandable.

Perhaps the "Temple" is more a place of mind than a physical place? It is a fellowship more than a school or other "place". The discussion of "Temple" (and I do not know if people remember the Temple Of The Jedi Order claimed to have a "temple" here in Michigan near Grand Rapids - and suddenly the family building the temple left the Jedi and no more was done, as I understand it) so we all have heard and seen discussions of physical temple and it never comes to anything for the above reasons.

There is a lot of history in people wanting a Temple - but it's usual THIER temple in their chosen geographical area. I guess the place to start is close to home?

And maybe - we all (me included) need to make more of an effort to try to meet other Jedi locally?

[Moonshadow]

Attachment or choice?

I'd say a little bit of each. It's a choice we make as a result of being attached. Most of us understandably choose to remain where we are, both because it's familiar and comfortable, and because we're attached to the people and places we have there. It's a matter of choosing whether or not to give up those attachments. Whether choice or attachment, though, most people are still unwilling to move.

That choice is completely natural, healthy and understandable.

I completely agree. We live in a completely different world than the fictional Jedi did, so we can't expect to emulate them exactly. It's natural not to want to give up the lives we made for ourselves where we are now. The fictional Jedi, however, didn't really know anything other than the Temple, so they had far less to give up. They didn't have to make that choice because they never had the chance to form those same types of attachments.

Not saying making that choice not to move is a bad thing, but I do feel that it makes it unlikely that Jedi as a whole will ever come together to live in the same physical location. In fact, it might even be a good thing since we can make a greater impact in our own communities than if we were all isolated up in a mountain retreat somewhere. I think most likely, a few individual, informal local temples may be created, but the large scale million dollar facility that people keep dreaming about will probably never happen.

But those who do choose to come together could organize. But choice of place has nothing to do with "attachment" but that most want the temple to be close to their own homes and families.

Why do most people want the temple close to their homes and families if they're not attached to the friends, families, jobs, homes, etc that they have there? I guess I'm a little confused on how you define attachment. I see an attachment as something that ties or binds us. I have ties to my family, to the fact that I've lived in Baltimore my entire life, to my job, to the easy access I have to a large Jewish population, etc. Don't you have ties and obligations to your business and your employees that keep you from just picking up and leaving town? Isn't it your choice to keep and respect those ties?

All of that being said, if an offline Temple was in the right location with nearby available jobs and the right mix of people and the opportunities for growth I'm looking for, I would be willing to move despite my attachments. The problem is finding such a temple that actually meets all of that criteria and where the benefits outweigh the cost of leaving everything else I know behind. If it was a true temple like they had in the fictional Star Wars universe, I'd be there in a heart beat. But there's no telling what sort of temple we'd be able to create in this world.

There is a lot of history in people wanting a Temple - but it's usual THIER temple in their chosen geographical area.

I agree with this too. Just as every online site likes to run things their own way, every offline temple will probably do the same. If we can't even create a unified front online, I don't see us being able to do so offline.

And maybe - we all (me included) need to make more of an effort to try to meet other Jedi locally?

That's what the Chapters are for. ;)

--Moonshadow

[RyuJin]

this is where i differ from nearly every jedi i have ever met...i truly have no attachments to friends, family, job, or anything else....even when i was in the military i didn't miss home like everyone else did...most of my life i've always felt more comfortable when i stayed apart from everyone else...i have very few friends, i've never fit in with my family, a job is merely work and i really have no interest in money other then to pay bills and buy food/drinks....i'd be perfectly at home living in isolation, growing and hunting my own food....maybe i'm just broken/defective as a human...or maybe i'm simply a natural jedi and a natural ronin.....

[Mindas Arran]

My point is to start out small and grow from there. You can't create a Temple without first building a solid foundation.
+1

this is where i differ from nearly every jedi i have ever met...i truly have no attachments to friends, family, job, or anything else....even when i was in the military i didn't miss home like everyone else did...most of my life i've always felt more comfortable when i stayed apart from everyone else...i have very few friends, i've never fit in with my family, a job is merely work and i really have no interest in money other then to pay bills and buy food/drinks....i'd be perfectly at home living in isolation, growing and hunting my own food....maybe i'm just broken/defective as a human...or maybe i'm simply a natural jedi and a natural ronin.....
I can't imagine living a life where I had no attachment to anything. I love my family (well, some of them anyways) and friends dearly, and cherish the attachments I have. Even more so with the upcoming birth of my daughter. Just one more reason I'd never hack it as a jedi...

[Ander Ro'Sal]

Again thank you all for reading my post and so many comments.

I must say I sense great wisdom in this group. but I also sense fear and doubt.

I want to first make clear that no one, has asked you to walk away from your jobs or family. It is expected that members of the Jedi Order will not live in the temple, but that option is always availbe. Where others see just a building i see a permanent home. A place where you can send your children for summer camp. A place that invests in the furture of humanity. adopting children that would be washed away in the system and left to fight through poverty and violence. A place for learning and meditation. A place where becuase your a Jedi you can walk in at any time with any need and we will help. A place filled with people like me a ryu. men who have no ties already have no real homes. but we have our faith in the force to provide for us.
A place that is built to a ZERO carbon output. where we grow our own food have an endless supply of water and electricity provided to us by the very planet we live on.

It sounds far off, and I know many of you don't have money to throw away. but a $1, thats not much to ask. if you can spare $1 here or there then spare what you can. We would never ask for you to donate to us before you take care of your kids or your bills. We are realists, becuase we realize that we live in the real word not a fictional movie. But we are Jedi and we need to remember that charity, compassion, understanding and helping others is all part of who we are and what we stand for.

I have lost everything i had when I stepped off the path and now that I'm back on it I see the beauty that lays ahead.

It is there and it will be beautiful to see.
Still there are obsticals to over come and ofcourse there is still selfishness out there in our community.
The Jedi across the world will see the movement and they will support it.

trust in your fellow Jedi becuase the Force is guiding us here. thats why the subject keeps coming up. Its just that its to easy to be corrupted. with something like this. thats why before the first penny is donated every possible counter meassure is put in place to prevent us from being robbed.
I hope this debate can continue further.

MAY THE FORCE BE WITH US ALL

[Mindas Arran]

It's not fear and doubt that you sense, it's skepticism and objectivity. Everything you're talking about has been tried before. Tried and failed.

HOWEVER...

As an act of good will and faith, I'll be the first one to donate to your endeavor. If nothing else, just to say that I didn't naysay it without giving it a sporting chance to come to fruition. Set up your paypal or what have you, I'll pledge 5$. It won't come out of my family's mouth... I'll just go without energy drink and cheetos for a day or two. I could probably go with a break from that stuff anyways. LoL

Best of luck to you.

[AstaSophi]

Aimee - I was just observing that those who want to build the temple tend to build it where they live and are attached. Or where THEY wish to be. That is healthy and natural - but it makes it more difficult to ask others to truly give up their chosen lives to follow another's dream.

[Mindas Arran]

Asta brings up a good point. I just signed on a house and even IF they had a functioning Jedi temple, it better be pretty dang shiny for me to sell my castle and uproot the family.

[RyuJin]

a life with no true attachments isn't the cruel, lonely, exile that people would believe it to be, in fact it is quite peaceful, and painfree....even when out in nature i'm not truly alone as i have all the animals and plants to commune with....i actually feel more bonded to life then to anything physical...it's a great feeling to feel all that life out there and really difficult to explain it, it's simply something that has to be felt...even trying to describe it in words is doing it a great disservice...

[Charles]

A life without attachments? Uh, I'm kinda attached to quite a many things myself. Jedi themselves in the fiction though are very attached, to the Order, to their weapons, and to each other. I think the Jedi though in the fiction are very much like the Samurai and Knights of their era. You see a whole lot of lip service paid to ideals but at the end of the day they are only human.

Honestly I think we, as people, not bringing the name Jedi into this part of it at all aren't much different. We can pay some lip service to certain ideals, we can even implement them to an extent, but at the end of the day a nice warm bed to sleep in, clean running water, seeing your children grow up happy and healthy, having a family, having things you can call your own, these are things we not only want but need to thrive.

Then again even a warrior monk has his rock garden.

I think though detachment never was meant to be as far as people seem to want to take it. It's more a state of mind we achieve in place of attachment when we loose something or know we are going to loose something. To practice detachment doesn't, in my mind, mean to be completely unattached. It simply means that sometimes you have to be detached from situations, people, and things to save yourself a greater burden.

HOWEVER

The problem isn't even just a matter of people. It's a matter of logistics. Ideas are great, but lets face it, without some kind of major government support Jedi in the fiction wouldn't have ground to the autonomous body they became and we frankly won't either. Perhaps we should consider getting military training and becoming a band of mercenaries for government contracts or bounty hunters?

[Zaron]

Ander and Ryujin you both have good points and I want to make clear that if I had anything to spare it would be done already. Ryujin I like what you are saying. I lived on the streets for a year and I also have hardly any atatchment to anything besides what helps me focus onm the force such as books and viedo games. Do to being on the streets all alone without any other belivers to talk to I learned how to resist latching onto something or someone which means that if I could somehow gather the money to fly to where ever the temple was if there was one I would do it in a heartbeat but until then I have to focus on getting back on my feet. I know that diffrent Jedi have familys and such but I can only speak for myself. I belive that anybody who has no family ties or is not that close to them should use the oppertunity to make themselves stronger and to make them tighter with the force. Like I said I personally have no family attachment or anything so I can't entirly understand what you guys are saying all I can say is to mediatate in this.

May the force be with us and may we be with the force

[Moonshadow]

Aimee - I was just observing that those who want to build the temple tend to build it where they live and are attached. Or where THEY wish to be. That is healthy and natural - but it makes it more difficult to ask others to truly give up their chosen lives to follow another's dream.

Maybe we're just saying the same thing in different words then. :p

Asta brings up a good point. I just signed on a house and even IF they had a functioning Jedi temple, it better be pretty dang shiny for me to sell my castle and uproot the family.

And yep, I'm in exactly the same mindset.

--Moonshadow

[Andy]

Thats the big thing, any temple would need employment services.

[Setanaoko]

Employment services? That one's easy. Make it into a school deal.

Only thing we would NOT need, is a Janitor. Clean up would be a group effort (so I totally pulled that from the military, but it works :P).

And then you could have services much like at alternative healing schools. Students practice on people that come in (such as massage, Acupuncture, etc) and pay a fee. (stole that idea from MaraJade/Imperial Jade-I believe a good number of you know her).

As a matter of fact, I believe her idea is one of the best ones I've seen in a good long time to help start up such a project. The Holistic center. I think that could become our temple when we are able to begin the project full scale.

Start small, work our way up to the bigger picture. Each one of us will play a role in establishing what the Temple will become. Even if it is merely laying down the groundwork and others carrying out our dreams.

[RyuJin]

the best bet would be to look at other major organizations and identify the commonality they have...i think if a temple had a physical presence as well as a virtual one it would be able to serve much more of the community(global)...

[Kitsu Tails]

(stole that idea from MaraJade/Imperial Jade-I believe a good number of you know her).

As a matter of fact, I believe her idea is one of the best ones I've seen in a good long time to help start up such a project. The Holistic center. I think that could become our temple when we are able to begin the project full scale.

I believe alot of individuals besides Mara have thought of this or similar :sHa_thumb: As was mentioned....This has been the heat of yearly conversations since Force Academy many, many years ago.

Not saying, her's or anyone else's is a bad idea, just saying that many have come to the same conclusions and all are credited for it. :)

[Moonshadow]

Yeah, Jade and I actually have very similar ideas about a Jedi Wellness / Community Center and even discussed working together on it in the past. But since I really have no desire to move to TX and she's unlikely to move up to MD, we discussed maybe having separate facilities that were still administratively linked. It's been a few years since I've talked to her about it, though, and she's most likely much further along in the creation of such an endeavor than I am. My more recent, smaller scale, proposal is here (http://www.jediresourcecenter.org/vb/showthread.php?t=110). I've also been discussing this idea with MAdamR through phone conversations, but he's too tied up with other things right now to really get involved at this point in time.

--Moonshadow

[Ander Ro'Sal]

T hank you all again for your replies.
But still there are issues that must be brought to light so that we are all at an understanding.
I've been speaking off line with several other Jedi and alot seem to be under the impression that you have to leave your homes When the temple is built. This is not true. You need not give up your jobs and homes to live there. thats just not a good course of action. The temple would be a bastion. similar to lets say the vactican. a place open to all people to come and learn. The jedi living in this temple would be those who wish to live in service of the rest of us. Jedi that are willing(keyword) WILLING to live in the temple, working for the betterment of all Jedi and mankind. Not every Jedi is required to live in or even visit the temple. just not all catholics live in the vatican.
I know there is still alot of work to be done and right now my task is difficult. But still this is the path the force has lead me to and I will keep following it until its complete.
thank you for your donation in advace and as soon as all the legality and finacial safeguards are put in place I will post the information on this site.

[Ander Ro'Sal]

more importantly the main temple would be the home toall archives and the council. and more like a facility similar to a corporate headquaters. once it gets set we'd could have training facilities and healing centers all over the globe. with one central Temple to manage the flow of everything. employment is really the least of our worries that issue solves its self. like yes you'd have training and health centers out side the main temple. but at the main temple is to focus on the order and improving all our lives. We have all seen in the past how power corrupts and how the churches of the world have used their influence to control the population. the following that has called us is free of that corruption and we if we do this right can keep it that way. This is what I've seen. aplace free of the noise and the corruption where we as jedi will always have a home. a place serine for us to use freely to better ourselves and connect more deeply with the force and I belive it possible

may the FROCE be with us all

[Zaron]

It is possible that much we MUST have faith in but like I said before for some reason I have the strange feeling that the force does not want us to have a temple YET. My reasoning for this is that many other groups have tried this and failed. It may be that we are not well enough know by the people we are trying to help and it may be that WE as jedi can't do this without total agreement from the suronding people and possibley the whole state or maybe the whole country.

[Andy]

employment is really the least of our worries that issue solves its self. like yes you'd have training and health centers out side the main temple. but at the main temple is to focus on the order and improving all our lives.



I disagree completely that the employment issue would solve itself. It wont. Even if you have a "healing clinic" and teach martial arts.

1.) Alternative healing is not main stream. Let me ask those who practice it as a profession, does it pay the bills? Would it pay the bills for an entire community of people? Are there even enough people out there that would even use the services?

2.) In order to draw in people, we would need to be THE authorities on energy healing. Are you? Are any of us? How many jedi put in the real life time necessary to be such?

[Kitsu Tails]

3.) In order to have a temple or healing clinic...you would have to have people truly willing to attend.... Other then the regulars that go to the yearly gatherings, how many of you have actually attended said yearly gatherings? If you cant commit to a yearly gathering, how do you plan on committing to a temple or center?

[Charles]

4) I know ONE energy healer out of all the people I've met online who does it professionally. He's over in DENMARK and doesn't even list himself as a Jedi, and he's the first to tell you if your going to pay the bills you better darn well be sure you can do what you say you can when the person steps through the door.